Is HD Radio a Farce?
Wednesday July 8, 2009
That's the opinion of "PocketRadio" who posted in the radio.about.com forum and said in part:
"In authorizing HD Radio, the FCC ignored the disastrous interference potential of HD Radio/IBOC, and also tried to cover-up the interference from BPL to amateur radio! HD Radio is a farce!"
What say you? Have you listened to HD Radio? Have you purchased an HD Radio receiver? Is it overblown or over-criticized? Weigh in now...
Comments
A little over a year ago, I bought a Sony XDR-F1HD tuner for my home, there was a $50 discount from ibiquity, so it only cost me $50. The component itself has stellar performance (on analog FM as well), comprehensively beating a $700 Onkyo T-9090II that I have, so HD radio has certianly spawned some great electronics. On the content side, HD radio sounds fantastic compared to analog FM, you get a scroll telling you the song name…really the way RDS should have worked, but never did. And there’s all these new channels that are commercial free. I gotta tell you Mr. Dietz, the premise of the statement you point to from “Pocketradio” could not be farther removed from reality. HD radio is fantastic, and that Sony XDR-F1HD is one of the best values in audio today at $100.
I have a Sony XDR-S3HD which was purchased for $49. I’m glad I didn’t pay anymore. IBiquity HD radio isn’t what it’s cracked up to be and in no way is it “fantastic” as Mr Shearer states. FM digital sound quality is marginally better and this is a stretch. Program content is just a rehash of what’s already available on other services. AM digital is just not acceptable under any conditions. Overall, I don’t see a compelling need for it.
I also own a Sony XDR-F1HD tuner and Mr Shearers’ experience is hardly typical unless you are a city bound dweller and even then I really don’t believe his rosy narrative as it sounds too close to the bull strewn by executives of ibiquity. In fact I live in central MA between two major cities Boston and Worcester and am lucky to get one or two FM HD’s and can get NO AM HD’s although I live less than 8 miles from a 5 KW AM IBOC transmitter (this station blasts in in analog) and live about 40 miles from a 50KW AM IBOC transmitter. I run the Sony
through a 30 year old Marantz 2385 receiver and the analog signal of a local HD FM sounds better than the HD signal in an A-B comparison listening to the same station using the same amp, pre amp and speakers. HD IS A FARCE PERPETUATED only TO MAKE MONEY and screw consumers, unfortunately for the purveyors of this junk it isn’t selling and when it does the return rates are very high. Try to find one in a store near you, Give up? So did the stores for lack of sales, if you do actually find one in a store ask for a demonstration, chances are it will receive nothing. This technology has spawned THE most deaf receivers in history. The hashy noise it makes which inteferes with adjacent channel stations is a whole other story. Check out Pocket Radio’s site, you will find all articles which are the opinions of the writers who wrote them, and there are a LOT of radio people who HATE IT AND SEE IT FOR WHAT IT IS AND WRITE ABOUT IT which is what he collects on his site. May HD die a quick and silent death.
Incidentally Mr Shearer might want to take his Onkyo in for a little tune up as it sounds like it is not up to snuff. I stand by my Marantz which kills the Sony in most measures.
Robert D Young Jr
Millbury, MA
Mr. Ervin, may I recommend you connect your HD radio to a proper Yagi antenna, I use several…an Antennacraft FM-6 and a Winegard HD-6065P (sadly discontinued). I also sell Murata I.F. filters on the side for performance mods to FM tuners. I have significant experience with many tuners, including modified ones. The Onkyo T-9090II I have is a mint condition champ, not in need of any alignment, and I respect it significantly, but the simple fact of the matter is that the sensitivity and selectivity of the Sony XDR-F1HD is overwhelming, its a supurb DX machine and here’s a comprehensive independent website that details the outstanding capibilities of the XDR-F1HD…
http://www.ham-radio.com/k6sti/xdr-f1hd.htm
I’m not some stooge from ibiquity, and I know tuners quite well, and the XDR-F1HD is a Juggernaut! True is not very musical, but when when you get a stronger, clearer (analog)signal from a distant transmitter…the cleaner, lower static signal clearly trounces most if not all other tuners in terms of general listenability. Static and dropouts are an immediate listenability concern…”sounding a bit flat” takes a backseat to that. Some of my favorite quotes from that article I liked are “The XDR-F1HD has the best sensitivity figures I’ve ever measured” and “The stereo sensitivity figure is not a typo. Noise is 50 dB down for an unmodulated 13.5-dBf stereo signal. This figure is at least 20 dB better than that of conventional tuners”. Or how about “The astronomical selectivity figure is real…The Sony’s selectivity is more than 30 dB better than that of the best conventional tuner I’ve ever tested, a Kenwood L-07TII modified to cascade one 150-kHz and two 110-kHz Murata ceramic filters in narrow-IF mode.
“. I would strongly recommend that [both of] you do your homework before you make the mistake of continuing to agrue from a viewpoint that is simply wrong. And as far as the content point in which Mr. Ervin says “just a rehash of what’s already available on other services”…I’ll counter by pointing out that HD radio is free, sattelite is not.
Ah, Mr Shearer, so that’s the answer – fix it up to a Yagi aeriel. Damn it, why didn’t I think of that when I was hunting for a pocket sized HD radio to take anywhere. I’m gonna hi-tail it back to Best Buy to get me 100 yards of co-ax cable so I can take my HD radio with me round the house and into the yard.
Get real guys, HD was supported by NAB only to keep the European DAB system out of the US, and to make sure the radio owners didn’t get any more competition. DAB is doing OK, so NAB lost out on that one, and we got 200 channels on Sirius XM and thousands more on the internet. NAB screwed up big time. Eddie Fritts – are you happy what you did to the once proud and mighty business of American radio?
Well Mr. Shearer, you’re a self- proclaimed expert. How can I argue with that? Can’t wait to get one of those pocket iBiquity digital radios with a “proper Yagi antenna”. Not sure how I’m gonna fit the antenna in my pocket though – any suggestions? BTW – Next time don’t write so much. You’re a little long winded so I didn’t bother to read past the first few line of your post.
Mr. Shearer,
I could crawl up on my roof and put a Yagi up there but I certainly wouldn’t do it to increase my HD reception from 10 to an optimistic 40 miles when analog can easily travel that distance and sound just as good in most cases and YOU KNOW no consumer will ever do that, outside antennas for consumers are things of their grandfather’s time. The Sony tuner itself besides the fact that it runs so hot that you could fry an egg on top because of the power sucking HD chip inside is a good tuner, it would be a great analog FM tuner if the IBOC could be switched off (the AM section sucks just like all other modern tuners), but NOTHING is going to help this bomb called HD. Corey’s article’s premise is that perhaps the FCC is zealously pushing a junk technology for the profit of a few companies (imagine that) and ignoring all the shortcomings of this lead balloon technology which is dying no matter how much it is pushed. Merits of different receivers are beyond the scope of this discussion. You could have the best receiver in the world and HD still would not come in well and would still intefere with adjacents and would still only sounds marginally better than analog in a best case scenario, face it Brian, it’s all over for HD, IBOC, IBAC, iBlock or whatever you want to call it except for the bankruptcies. And yes satellite and Internet radio are 100 times better than HD could ever imagine itself to be.
Incidenataly Mr Shearer, I have read the same article, I am a ham too. Those figures are for it’s ANALOG performance not it’s HD performance. In fact you forgot to include the part about where he shows how to wire a switch into it to disable HD, jeez I wonder why?
I have pondered the “HD Radio” concept for some time now. With internet radio tuners at comparable costs, XM radio, ipod’s, limewire, all the music stations included with my cable TV package, delivered thru my surround sound, what’s the point? I would only be interested in the “AM” side anyway, and those stations are not required to broadcast 24 hrs HD anyway. Plus you certainly do need a quality aerial. I have also heard several radio DJ’s in my market trash the concept.Me thinks it is not worth it, and just may qualify as a good idea, bad concept.
HD Radio is crap. On FM it lowers audio quality to add additional channels. On AM it’s a noisy interference blasting farce. It’s a strange trade off to take when the problem has never been a shortage of quality content. Radio stations choose to use 120 song playlists with voice-tracked DJs. Adding a second channel with another whopping 100 songs is an absurd turn in the wrong direction. This is not the way to draw young people to radio. This is a way to drive off what you have left.
HD radio ,whats that .Here in central michigan it doesnt exist .There are no retailers in this area selling it .I have my satellite radio and while its not the best im waiting for wifi to become widespread .The fact that Hd radio has been around for a decade ,yeah its a joke
First, lets conclude the antenna issue. A proper antenna is an essential component in ANY radio wave reception scheme, regardless of bandwith…could be AM, could be HDTV. So attempts to marginalize or ignore the need for an antenna are simply foolish. My Yagi recommendation to Mr. Ervin pertained to his home based XDR-S3HD, which was an appropriate and sound approach to his situation. Then, others (Freyman) tried to confuse the issue by bring in the topic of portable radios. Unfortunately, any portable or mobile receiver has to make due with a whip antenna, be it rigid (like a car) or flexible (like your headphone wire). We all know you can’t carry around a yagi…so nice try, but do try to keep your recommendations realistic. If you can’t install a full size Yagi on your roof or in you your attic to support your home based FM reciever, get a Godar FM-1A.
Next, lets deal with the chipsets. Mr. Young, I know it burns you up that I supported my supurb experience with the XDR-F1HD with an extremely competent and detailed online review clearly illustrating that the XRD-F1HD is the most sensitive, most selective, and extremely overload resistant FM tuner that makind has ever created…especially after you incorrectly speculated that my experience was “hardly typical”. Keep in mind this is the first generation chipset in a budget componenent built to a low price point, and its still offering analog performance at an order of magnitude greater than anything that has ever preceeded it. Imagine what will be possible as the technology matures, and higher level tuners and new chipsets are brought to market. So let me ask you this…why would you not believe that portable HD radios would be capable of offering the same level of improvement of their reception capibilities? I’ve never experienced any digital hash or noise in my market, I just experience new commercial free stations that sound quite good without any monthly service fees.
Finally, a word about technology (and the way things work in the world).
Hey, I like analog FM too, don’t get me wrong, but the reality is that the analog era is over. All technologies are moving to digital. Think about anything…your cellular phone, VHS, answering machines, TV, data storage, it doesn’t matter, analog platforms are doomed…that’s a mathematical certianty. You can just do so much more in the digital realm. Weather its ibiquity’s standards that last, or a 2nd generation digital FM successor replaces it, analog FM will die. And I’ll be sad on that day too.
Brian – Do you work for iBiquity or Clear Channel?
All the technical talk aside, the real bottom line for many people is content. HD puts out the same homogenized predictable playlists that analog does. Boring content will still be boring even if the broadcast quality is a little better. Good FM radio has been dead for many years. Technology can’t fix bad programming.
Edison, no…I have no ties to either company you mention, and I specifically dislike Clear Channel. Buckize is beginning to touch on the corporate issues, but I’ve seen independant college channels adhering to a 20 song playlist too, so smaller broadcasters does not automatically equate to better content. I’ve been wondering if some people in here aren’t viral marketing plants from XM/Sirius with their vague arugments, unsupported speculation, and outright conjecture . Here’s the perspective I’m coming from…I spent $50 and got a tuner that (1) allows me to receive more distant analog FM stations better than any other tuner I’ve had…and I’ve had some really good ones. (2)It opened the door to new commercial free channels, which are clearer and have wider dynamic range without having to pay monthly service fees. And (3) the data scroll lets me know exactly what I’m hearing, too bad RDS never took off here like it did in Europe. Overall, I’d call that a steal at $50…if you had to suck it up and pay full price ($100), it would still be a fantastic bargain for what you’re getting.
Brian, No offence but you sound like you’re reading an iBiquity sales pitch and it’s really getting tiresome. No subscription fees, commercial free channels, crystal clear sound – on and on. Heard it all before. Bottom line – any additional programming is just a rehash of existing material available anywhere and at the expense of existing analog services. Digital radio isn’t a commodity people want but if iBiquity, Clear Channel and the “Joint Parties” get their way we’ll get it anyway. How long do you thing those “Subscription free” services will last if this thing ever really gets off the ground? We’ll talk again in a few years and see if you feel the same way. Care to make a small bet?
I’ll tell you what’s getting tiresome Edison, is people who have adopted negative opinions on HD radio based on misinformation from others, and beligerently adhering to it. Its precisely statements like what you make, that are what I’m talking about…when you speculate that the “subscription free” status of HD radio service may not remain “subscription free”. And then you want to make a “Small bet” about it? How about lets meet in real life and make a really, really big bet over that! Its technologically impossible to apply subscriber fees to HD Radio receivers, as you would for Sirius/XM receivers. And it really makes me wonder where you’re coming from when you offer up wildly irrational scenarios like that. And as far as content goes, what isn’t a rehash? What do you mean by that? In my market, the local classic rock channel (which is a worn-out snoozefest) has a great modern rock HD2 subchannel that plays content that would never be commercially viable (because people lock up when you veer off the beaten path, that’s exactly why the pathetic Rolling Stones are booked for superbowl halftime). That one modern rock channel alone is icing on the cake for me. And you know what, even if ibiquity completely collapses…the end result is going to be that you and me will be left with dirt cheap FM receivers with fantastic analog performance. Where’s the problem in any of this? The only thing people are offering up to counter me on this topic is conjecture.
Wow, you sound like you’re going to blow. Cool. But here goes. I’ve got a problem with company that secretively worked a deal with Government Authorities to implement a digital radio scheme that requires it to be licensed by otherwise free service radio stations (at a substantial cost to them) and misrepresents it as the only standard so “get on board” and, by the way, places severe restrictions on what you can and cannot say about the service. I’ve got a problem with a Government Agency that willingly knows and now allows adjacent channel interference that previously they held others accountable for and violate a law that they themselves put into place. I’ve got a problem with the FCC ignoring interference complaints by people like you and me (average consumers) and allow a consortium of large broadcast manufacturers (like the Joint Parties) to arm-twist the FCC to increase power levels on a service that consumers have yet accept or even feel they need. With all due respect you seem to lack understanding and I suspect feel that every service known to man needs to be digitized. And, by the way, I’m well versed in what’s happening and do own an HD radio. Another FYI – Dish Network has cool system that after you insert a credit card like device into your dish receiver – bingo – the new channels you just ordered for a monthly subscription are now available. Digital is real amazing! See how easy it is to get your money? Nice try!
Incidentally Steve – I’d love to meet you and go over this but you scare me.
I’m truly sorry that being passionate, articulate, and having broad command of the English language scares you Edison. But I do take solice in the fact that I genuinely understand where you’re coming from.
Brian Shearer says:
I know it burns you up that I supported my supurb experience with the XDR-F1HD with an extremely competent and detailed online review clearly illustrating that the XRD-F1HD is the most sensitive, most selective, and extremely overload resistant FM tuner that makind has ever created…
Mr Shearer this may also “burn you up” but I also own a Sony XDR-F1HD tuner and can’t believe how much you are exaggerating the performance of this tuner. Folks if “the XRD-F1HD is the most sensitive, most selective, and extremely overload resistant FM tuner that makind (sic) has ever created…” I’d hate to see the worst. The tuner itself is a good analog tuner even though it gets hot enough to fry an egg on top which makes me question it’s long term reliability but HD reception itslef is terrible, it sounds artificial to anyone who has decent ears, it inteferes with adjacent channels and the range is terrible. In fact HD radio is dead, it’s just too stupid to lie down, the Alliance will continue to bankroll it until the companies behind it go bankrupt and that will be that. Don’t waste your money on a dead technology, gee those 8 track tapes are coming in handy, huh?
Incidentally Brian, Steve or is it now Harry Shearer? Do you find it kind of strange that you are the only HD booster here? I don’t. You say you don’t profit from HD in anyway at all? Hmm.
Brian Shearer:
I have the same radio as Mr. Bob Ervin (Sony XDR-S3HD). I can’t pick up any stations in HD using the stock AM antenna and C. Crane’s FM Reflect Antenna. I live in a condo 45 miles north of New York City, which has plenty of HD stations, and condo rules won’t let me put up an outdoor antenna (my 20 year old Channel Master FM yagi is still at my parents house). The nearest station that broadcasts in HD is WDBY in Patterson, NY. This station is line of sight less than 10 miles away and I cannot get a HD lock on my radio with it. Therefore I share Mr. Ervin’s disappointment. Is it my particular radio? Is the FM Reflect antenna (NPR recommended it)? I paid $125 for a HD radio that only works as an AM/FM analog radio. This is not the kind of result I was expecting, and I think you were too hard on Mr. Ervin in your reply.
From Wikipedia:
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or collaborative content community with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional or disciplinary response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.
These comments are getting out of control… my advice is for those folks posting comments. DO NOT FEED THE TROLL!!!!
As an FM DXer for 30+ years, I agree that the Sony HD radios are the best ANALOG tuners I’ve ever used. However, HD radio only works if 1 of the 2 adjacent channels are empty, as this is what’s needed for HD reception to occur. HD stations spaced 0.4 MHz will share at 1 adjacent, making that adjacent useless. 88.1 and 107.9 have the best chance of being received since 87.9 and 108.1 are empty. HD stations have a better chance of being received in the empty dials around Anchorage, AK then it does in the crowded dials of NY or LA. Bottom line, the whole hybrid analog/digital idea is flawed. It causes interference to adjacent channels AND does not result in reliable reception of HD. A digital replacement should be on a new band. But really, how many people complain about poor quality of FM? RDS has the same song/title display as HD’s, and also includes genre which seems to be missing on HD. Question to ponder…why do people choose MP3’s over CD’s? It’s not because of quality. HD is doomed like AM stereo.
Here’s just a sampling of news articles I found just from doing a search on HD Radio:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122575904804195337.html
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2009/07/hdradio-goes-portable.html
http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2009/06/22/hd-radio-still-pushing-the-rock-up-the-hill/
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/09/technology/personaltech/09pogue.html
http://radiomagonline.com/reader_feedback/arguments-hdradio-0715/
http://www.rbr.com/radio/ENGINEERING/94/15657.html
http://www.fmqb.com/article.asp?id=1402614
As for me, I am going to wait for the new Zune Player with HD Radio before I make up my mind how HD Radio plays out.
http://blogs.nypost.com/music/archives/2009/07/new_zune_hd_set.html
Wow! FM DXER – you are so right! I moved my C.Crane FM Reflect indoor antenna above my window and got one HD FM station after I rescanned. Guess what the frequency was? 107.9 MHz!
DAB is not doing OK in the UK. No-one is listening, advertisers aren’t paying and DAB stations are being shut down left, right and centre.
Why would anyone want to listen to a maximum of 128kbps mp2 (and many stations are 64kbps mono) when they can listen to near CD quality on FM.
So sorry that this scam is now being perpetrated on the American people, but I’m glad that a few intelligent and tech-savvy people can see through it.
Remember, lots of senior citizens listen to the radio. My aunt bought a Tivoli Audio Model One AM/FM (analog only) radio because it is simple to operate. One large tuning knob and two smaller volume and band selector knobs. I have yet to see an HD radio with simple controls like that. No way could my aunt deal with LCD menus.
As an engineer in the biz, I can tell you that the engineering community is having similar arguments about the quality and viability of HD.
iBiquity has done a very poor job in marketing HD to the public.
And it’s less than stellar performance in a car makes multi-casting (it’s one redeeming feature) unusable. People simply won’t listen to HD-2 if it’s constantly dropping out due to signal loss. And it’s still the cars that count for most station’s bottom line.
There are also a number of design flaws with HD that also will doom it as other technologies surpass it.
As far as interference issues.. many of the bigger AM players have turned their HD systems off because, frankly, the loss of nighttime performance and the cost of keeping it all going wasn’t profitable.
If the power increase does happen in FM, a number of short spaced stations (mostly non-commercial) are VERY concerned about interference in 1st and 2nd adjacent channels and translators.
Please note that worldwide, digital radio of all kinds aren’t faring all that well, mostly due to lack of receivers or consumer demand. DRM, which I think sounds pretty good, falls into that category
BPL doesn’t have much to do with HD, but many AM stations were very concerned about the BPL proposals and were frankly shocked with the skewing of the test data to attempt to get it mandated. Luckily, real world tests have proven less than stellar and it’s pretty dead.
@Steve Shearer
It’s impossible to make HD Radio subscription-based?
“NDS Optimistic About Conditional Access Uses for Radio”
“NDS is working with chip manufacturers like Texas Instruments, Samsung, SiPort, NXP and others to work the Radio Guard intellectual property into HD Radio chipsets. The Dice unit is the first to have the NDS conditional access properties; however, We expect eventually all HD Radio chips will have NDS Radio Guard in them, he said.”
http://www.rwonline.com/article/73784
The hooks are going in right now. BTW – since HD radios are not field-upgradeable, this will obsolete all current HD radios, just as when multicating came out after HD radios initiallly hit the marketplace.
Quoting from professional articles, such as Radio World, is not considered misinformation. The lack of true information from the shysters at iBiquity and HD Alliance, is considered misinformation. The true information is making its way to consumers, who continue to reject this plawed system, designed to jam the smaller adjacent-channel stations off the dial – the HD2/HD3 channels actually jam and replace those of the smaller broadcasters.
It is interesting that FMeXtra was not allowed to compete by iBiquity’s FCC, since FMeXtra would have leveled the playing-field for all broadcasters (cheap and no interference).
I’m still learning about all technologies but would like to share my experiences so far.
When recording music from the optical out digital jack on an Insignia HD receiver into the optical in port of a Soundblaster X-Fi Platinum sound card on my computer, the results were not what I expected.
Looking at the waveform in my recording software, the signal has shockingly bad dynamic range (if I’m applying the correct term to ewhat I’ve seen). When I record satellite radio, a good FM station, or edit music from a CD, the waveform is open, with large peaks top to bottom. The HD recordings are narrow, closed, and seem compressed. Honestly, I don’t like the sound since it also feels compressed while listening. Using an optical (digital) connection, I expected great-looking waveforms. Switching to analog 3.5mm cables, the quality does not improve.
Am I expecting the wrong thing? Is the narrow, range-limited waveform actually superior?
My research continues.